Discussion:
[qmailtoaster] Dspam on the toaster
Rangi Biddle
2006-10-27 07:06:35 UTC
Permalink
Hi Guys,



Well I thought I would put my 2 cent's in to this conversation as I've
successfully implemented DSpam into my qmail toaster install but had a
couple of issues that need to be addressed if considering putting DSpam into
the current toaster.



First issue I had was initially deciding on how to integrate DSpam (as is
been mentioned already) and how best to manage it. This basically came down
to what the customers wanted which was to leave dealing with marking which
messages are spam to the systems administrators. Really sucks of course
considering that a simple error in marking a email for a client would then
cause them to not get the email and getting a real earful.



Second issue I had was mainly the limitations of where I could implement
DSpam into the current toaster setup. With the current toaster there were
issues with using either procmail or maildrop as LMTP or LDA which seemed to
cause messages to be lost in the void when mail was being delivered (with
catchall's and actual virtual user accounts). There has been discussion
already on this list about integrating DSpam with simscan which has been
done already, but, for an earlier version than what is being used at
present. The patch that is also available still isn't bug free and as
mentioned only works with version 1.1 of simscan. This is the best approach
(I believe) to integrating DSpam into the current toaster as even before
mail is accepted for delivery DSpam must allow it to pass. This
unfortunately was not how I implemented DSpam. I eventually ended up
setting up DSpam as a relay on an aliased interface on the same box which
would then send mail after it had passed through back to the other IP on the
same host. This is working ok but would prefer the simscan integration.
There was however one issue that was a nightmare to deal with, especially
after the mail server went live. This was getting the administration panel
for DSpam working. Now this wasn't a DSpam issue but more of an apache one
as the minimum GID of a group that is allowed to suexec CGI scripts was >=
1000 and vpopmail has a GID of 89. Hmmm, what to do here? I had to
recompile vpopmail (after editing spec file) for the adjustment and then
rebuild any other RPM that was dependant on vpopmail and finally changing
ownership of all the various files/directories that vpopmail had some type
of ownership of. After a long ordeal the finished product was well worth
it. I have gone that little bit further with DSpam and have setup another
system that now does all the relaying separately to the Qmail Toaster and
just has messages for legitimate users being passed to the actual mail
server which further reduces the load of the mail server instead of bouncing
messages back and forth. As someone has asked or mentioned about
implementing ClamAV into DSpam this really wasn't very difficult. All I
merely had to do was install the clamav RPM and configure clamav to listen
for TCP connections, uncomment a few lines in the dspam.conf file (ClamAV
relevant sections), update clamav db using freshclam and finally starting
clamav and restarting DSpam (if already running before installing ClamAV).
From what I have experienced so far, with DSpam, any further spam fights
(not the canned kind) we will most certainly win. After receiving a few
messages (for my own email account) that were spam, I logged into the
administration panel and marked these messages and a few others that had
gotten through and well I haven't seen messages of those type come back
through again. Similarly, other admin members did the same after showing
them what to do and voila same thing for them as well - less spam. Over the
course of the next few days we have had significant drop in spam coming
through which for me was a wet dream come true considering the levels of
spam that were originally getting through even with spamassassin being set
to "Super Paranoid Level". But all in all my hat is off to the folks over
at nuclear elephant. Much thanks to everyone hear as well for the qmail
toaster project and their input.



Rangi
Eric "Shubes"
2006-10-27 19:30:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rangi Biddle
Hi Guys,
Well I thought I would put my 2 cent’s in to this conversation as I’ve
successfully implemented DSpam into my qmail toaster install but had a
couple of issues that need to be addressed if considering putting DSpam
into the current toaster.
A tad more than 2 cents, methinks. ;)
Post by Rangi Biddle
First issue I had was initially deciding on how to integrate DSpam (as
is been mentioned already) and how best to manage it. This basically
came down to what the customers wanted which was to leave dealing with
marking which messages are spam to the systems administrators. Really
sucks of course considering that a simple error in marking a email for a
client would then cause them to not get the email and getting a real earful.
I believe that DSpam isn't workable without user participation. This is as
much a matter of education as it is anything else. I don't think spam can be
addressed solely by system administrator. PHBs and customers need to
acknowledge that fact (not an opinion). Anything short of that is wishful
thinking. Of course, there will be some who refuse to understand this, and
SA is better suited to them (and I suppose they deserve a less effective
solution).
Post by Rangi Biddle
Second issue I had was mainly the limitations of where I could implement
DSpam into the current toaster setup. With the current toaster there
were issues with using either procmail or maildrop as LMTP or LDA which
seemed to cause messages to be lost in the void when mail was being
delivered (with catchall’s and actual virtual user accounts). There has
been discussion already on this list about integrating DSpam with
simscan which has been done already, but, for an earlier version than
what is being used at present. The patch that is also available still
isn’t bug free and as mentioned only works with version 1.1 of simscan.
That's unfortunate. We need to find out what inter7's plans are regarding
simscan with dspam.
Post by Rangi Biddle
This is the best approach (I believe) to integrating DSpam into the
current toaster as even before mail is accepted for delivery DSpam must
allow it to pass. This unfortunately was not how I implemented DSpam.
I eventually ended up setting up DSpam as a relay on an aliased
interface on the same box which would then send mail after it had passed
through back to the other IP on the same host. This is working ok but
would prefer the simscan integration. There was however one issue that
was a nightmare to deal with, especially after the mail server went
live. This was getting the administration panel for DSpam working. Now
this wasn’t a DSpam issue but more of an apache one as the minimum GID
of a group that is allowed to suexec CGI scripts was >= 1000 and
vpopmail has a GID of 89. Hmmm, what to do here? I had to recompile
vpopmail (after editing spec file) for the adjustment and then rebuild
any other RPM that was dependant on vpopmail and finally changing
ownership of all the various files/directories that vpopmail had some
type of ownership of.
I wonder how Lee's implemetation dealt with this. Perhaps the configuration
parameters (--with-dspam-home-owner=vpopmail --with-dspam-home-group=vchkpw
--with-dspam-owner=vpopmail --with-dspam-group=vchkpw) took care of it?
Post by Rangi Biddle
After a long ordeal the finished product was well
worth it. I have gone that little bit further with DSpam and have setup
another system that now does all the relaying separately to the Qmail
Toaster and just has messages for legitimate users being passed to the
actual mail server which further reduces the load of the mail server
instead of bouncing messages back and forth.
Sounds nice, but I think that the basic toaster needs to be self contained,
with scalability.
Post by Rangi Biddle
As someone has asked or
mentioned about implementing ClamAV into DSpam this really wasn’t very
difficult. All I merely had to do was install the clamav RPM and
configure clamav to listen for TCP connections, uncomment a few lines in
the dspam.conf file (ClamAV relevant sections), update clamav db using
freshclam and finally starting clamav and restarting DSpam (if already
running before installing ClamAV).
Hopefully we can continue to use clamav under simscan, so this won't be an
issue. I don't anticipate that we'll need to go this route, unless simscan
can't be used for some (unknown/unanticipated) reason.
Post by Rangi Biddle
From what I have experienced so far, with DSpam, any further spam fights
(not the canned kind) we will most certainly win. After receiving a few
messages (for my own email account) that were spam, I logged into the
administration panel and marked these messages and a few others that had
gotten through and well I haven’t seen messages of those type come back
through again. Similarly, other admin members did the same after
showing them what to do and voila same thing for them as well – less
spam. Over the course of the next few days we have had significant drop
in spam coming through which for me was a wet dream come true
considering the levels of spam that were originally getting through even
with spamassassin being set to “Super Paranoid Level”. But all in all
my hat is off to the folks over at nuclear elephant. Much thanks to
everyone hear as well for the qmail toaster project and their input.
Rangi
Thanks for contributing your experience, Rangi.
--
-Eric 'shubes'

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d***@e2000.es
2006-10-27 19:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi!

Almost everyone in this list tells about using dspam _instead_ SA .

DSpam is GREAT, as allow a user to interact with the antispam system
and train it.

BUT, people is lazy.

Very lazy.

Typical users use POP accounts with Outlook and don't know even that
there are IMAP folders on their server.


Maybe they deserve SPAM, but tell your PHB why they get that much spam!


A much better approach about spam is getting a VERY conservative
SpamAssassin configuration, just as we with the default toaster have,
and implement DSpam as per user basis (with maildrop).

If you as user like to control your spam you can use this new option
via IMAP or squirrelmail with folders.

If you are a tipical user that doesn't use IMAP nor Squirrelmail (90%
of people using non free html mail (gmail, hotmail, etc)), you will get
some SPAM.

And everyone happy, the sun shines the birds sing and the beer is cold
:-P ( friday night, nevermind )


Thanks pals.
Post by Eric "Shubes"
Post by Rangi Biddle
Hi Guys,
Well I thought I would put my 2 cent’s in to this conversation as I’ve
successfully implemented DSpam into my qmail toaster install but had a
couple of issues that need to be addressed if considering putting DSpam
into the current toaster.
A tad more than 2 cents, methinks. ;)
Post by Rangi Biddle
First issue I had was initially deciding on how to integrate DSpam (as
is been mentioned already) and how best to manage it. This basically
came down to what the customers wanted which was to leave dealing with
marking which messages are spam to the systems administrators. Really
sucks of course considering that a simple error in marking a email for a
client would then cause them to not get the email and getting a real earful.
I believe that DSpam isn't workable without user participation. This is as
much a matter of education as it is anything else. I don't think spam can be
addressed solely by system administrator. PHBs and customers need to
acknowledge that fact (not an opinion). Anything short of that is wishful
thinking. Of course, there will be some who refuse to understand this, and
SA is better suited to them (and I suppose they deserve a less effective
solution).
Post by Rangi Biddle
Second issue I had was mainly the limitations of where I could implement
DSpam into the current toaster setup. With the current toaster there
were issues with using either procmail or maildrop as LMTP or LDA which
seemed to cause messages to be lost in the void when mail was being
delivered (with catchall’s and actual virtual user accounts). There has
been discussion already on this list about integrating DSpam with
simscan which has been done already, but, for an earlier version than
what is being used at present. The patch that is also available still
isn’t bug free and as mentioned only works with version 1.1 of simscan.
That's unfortunate. We need to find out what inter7's plans are regarding
simscan with dspam.
Post by Rangi Biddle
This is the best approach (I believe) to integrating DSpam into the
current toaster as even before mail is accepted for delivery DSpam must
allow it to pass. This unfortunately was not how I implemented DSpam.
I eventually ended up setting up DSpam as a relay on an aliased
interface on the same box which would then send mail after it had passed
through back to the other IP on the same host. This is working ok but
would prefer the simscan integration. There was however one issue that
was a nightmare to deal with, especially after the mail server went
live. This was getting the administration panel for DSpam working. Now
this wasn’t a DSpam issue but more of an apache one as the minimum GID
of a group that is allowed to suexec CGI scripts was >= 1000 and
vpopmail has a GID of 89. Hmmm, what to do here? I had to recompile
vpopmail (after editing spec file) for the adjustment and then rebuild
any other RPM that was dependant on vpopmail and finally changing
ownership of all the various files/directories that vpopmail had some
type of ownership of.
I wonder how Lee's implemetation dealt with this. Perhaps the
configuration
parameters (--with-dspam-home-owner=vpopmail
--with-dspam-home-group=vchkpw
--with-dspam-owner=vpopmail --with-dspam-group=vchkpw) took care of it?
Post by Rangi Biddle
After a long ordeal the finished product was well
worth it. I have gone that little bit further with DSpam and have setup
another system that now does all the relaying separately to the Qmail
Toaster and just has messages for legitimate users being passed to the
actual mail server which further reduces the load of the mail server
instead of bouncing messages back and forth.
Sounds nice, but I think that the basic toaster needs to be self contained,
with scalability.
Post by Rangi Biddle
As someone has asked or
mentioned about implementing ClamAV into DSpam this really wasn’t very
difficult. All I merely had to do was install the clamav RPM and
configure clamav to listen for TCP connections, uncomment a few lines in
the dspam.conf file (ClamAV relevant sections), update clamav db using
freshclam and finally starting clamav and restarting DSpam (if already
running before installing ClamAV).
Hopefully we can continue to use clamav under simscan, so this won't be an
issue. I don't anticipate that we'll need to go this route, unless simscan
can't be used for some (unknown/unanticipated) reason.
Post by Rangi Biddle
From what I have experienced so far, with DSpam, any further spam fights
(not the canned kind) we will most certainly win. After receiving a few
messages (for my own email account) that were spam, I logged into the
administration panel and marked these messages and a few others that had
gotten through and well I haven’t seen messages of those type come back
through again. Similarly, other admin members did the same after
showing them what to do and voila same thing for them as well – less
spam. Over the course of the next few days we have had significant drop
in spam coming through which for me was a wet dream come true
considering the levels of spam that were originally getting through even
with spamassassin being set to “Super Paranoid Level”. But all in all
my hat is off to the folks over at nuclear elephant. Much thanks to
everyone hear as well for the qmail toaster project and their input.
Rangi
Thanks for contributing your experience, Rangi.
--
-Eric 'shubes'
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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d***@e2000.es
2006-10-27 20:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rangi Biddle
Second issue I had was mainly the limitations of where I could implement
DSpam into the current toaster setup. With the current toaster there
were issues with using either procmail or maildrop as LMTP or LDA which
seemed to cause messages to be lost in the void when mail was being
delivered (with catchall’s and actual virtual user accounts). There has
been discussion already on this list about integrating DSpam with
simscan which has been done already, but, for an earlier version than
what is being used at present. The patch that is also available still
isn’t bug free and as mentioned only works with version 1.1 of simscan.
BTW, IMHO catchall mail accounts are STUPID.

I think that if you use catchall you don't even care about spam.


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Lee R. Copp
2006-10-27 21:00:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rangi Biddle
First issue I had was initially deciding on how to integrate DSpam (as is
been mentioned already) and how best to manage it. This basically came down
to what the customers wanted which was to leave dealing with marking which
messages are spam to the systems administrators. Really sucks of course
considering that a simple error in marking a email for a client would then
cause them to not get the email and getting a real earful.
That is a totally impractical solution to spam. Anything beyond 50-100
users and you will spend all day just filtering email. Certain things
belong to admins (black-lists, antivirus, etc..) but users MUST be
involved in determining their own spam/ham. An admin cannot determine
if a user wants that ad from tiger-direct (or whoever) or not.

Besides, after the initial training there is very little the user needs
to do except check a spam folder once in a while looking for false
positives...:)
--
Lee R. Copp
Project Engineer (EE/ME)
http://www.michsci.com/

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d***@e2000.es
2006-10-27 21:10:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee R. Copp
Post by Rangi Biddle
First issue I had was initially deciding on how to integrate DSpam (as is
been mentioned already) and how best to manage it. This basically came down
to what the customers wanted which was to leave dealing with marking which
messages are spam to the systems administrators. Really sucks of course
considering that a simple error in marking a email for a client would then
cause them to not get the email and getting a real earful.
That is a totally impractical solution to spam. Anything beyond 50-100
users and you will spend all day just filtering email. Certain things
belong to admins (black-lists, antivirus, etc..) but users MUST be
involved in determining their own spam/ham. An admin cannot determine
if a user wants that ad from tiger-direct (or whoever) or not.
Besides, after the initial training there is very little the user needs
to do except check a spam folder once in a while looking for false
positives...:)
--
Yep, a user must involve in this. At least with DSpam.

For DSpam to work as expected MUST be configured user-by-user

Your example of TigerDirect is perfect.

Thinking a little about it, should we uninstall a properly configured,
whole-system antispam spamassassin?

I think SA (or another whole server spam killer) must be installed, with a
very prudent configuration (the default toaster conf is perfect), to help
avoid unwanted bulk traffic.

Anyway bandwith is a scarce resource.
Post by Lee R. Copp
Lee R. Copp
Project Engineer (EE/ME)
http://www.michsci.com/
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Rangi Biddle
2006-10-28 12:23:02 UTC
Permalink
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the feedback on what I've posted thus far. I totally agree about
user participation when training Dspam and have explained that to my
customer who is using the toaster for their customers (~415 domains). But
alas, they themselves are ignorant to the subject of spam. As someone else
mentioned from my message about catchalls, they are entirely correct and I
to agree that catchalls are an open invitation to spammers to spam you if
you have a catchall.

Considering the amount of active participation there is with DSpam I'd be
happy to put my name forward as one of the testers or perhaps assist in
integrating DSpam with simscan.

Perhaps a point to start would be to take the simscan 1.1 patch and examine
it. Either that or wait for the guys at Inter7 to do something with it.

-- Side Bar: If any of you have already experienced what it is like using
DSpam and its effectiveness you'd want to have it running now! I'm serious
when I make that statement if you've ever gotten sick of clearing out your
Inbox that is full of spam.

Changing the subject ever so slightly, those configure options that Eric
posted are for DSpam and as I've already pointed out on that issue; it
wasn't to do with DSpam, but more to do with the user/group that executes
the administration CGI scripts (if you intend to run the CGI scripts). This
was wholly an apache suexec issue more than a DSpam one.

I look forward to any comments/feedback.


-----Original Message-----
From: ***@e2000.es [mailto:***@e2000.es]
Sent: Saturday, 28 October 2006 10:11 a.m.
To: qmailtoaster-***@qmailtoaster.com
Subject: Re: [qmailtoaster] Dspam on the toaster
Post by Lee R. Copp
Post by Rangi Biddle
First issue I had was initially deciding on how to integrate DSpam (as is
been mentioned already) and how best to manage it. This basically came down
to what the customers wanted which was to leave dealing with marking which
messages are spam to the systems administrators. Really sucks of course
considering that a simple error in marking a email for a client would then
cause them to not get the email and getting a real earful.
That is a totally impractical solution to spam. Anything beyond 50-100
users and you will spend all day just filtering email. Certain things
belong to admins (black-lists, antivirus, etc..) but users MUST be
involved in determining their own spam/ham. An admin cannot determine
if a user wants that ad from tiger-direct (or whoever) or not.
Besides, after the initial training there is very little the user needs
to do except check a spam folder once in a while looking for false
positives...:)
--
Yep, a user must involve in this. At least with DSpam.

For DSpam to work as expected MUST be configured user-by-user

Your example of TigerDirect is perfect.

Thinking a little about it, should we uninstall a properly configured,
whole-system antispam spamassassin?

I think SA (or another whole server spam killer) must be installed, with a
very prudent configuration (the default toaster conf is perfect), to help
avoid unwanted bulk traffic.

Anyway bandwith is a scarce resource.
Post by Lee R. Copp
Lee R. Copp
Project Engineer (EE/ME)
http://www.michsci.com/
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Eric "Shubes"
2006-10-28 16:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rangi Biddle
Perhaps a point to start would be to take the simscan 1.1 patch and examine
it. Either that or wait for the guys at Inter7 to do something with it.
I'd like to see a capable person look at the patch. We should probably hit
inter7's simscan list to see what the status of DSpam is with them.
Post by Rangi Biddle
Changing the subject ever so slightly, those configure options that Eric
posted are for DSpam and as I've already pointed out on that issue; it
wasn't to do with DSpam, but more to do with the user/group that executes
the administration CGI scripts (if you intend to run the CGI scripts). This
was wholly an apache suexec issue more than a DSpam one.
Hey Lee, what do you know about this problem? (Please see Rangi's earlier
post) Did you come across this problem? Solution?
--
-Eric 'shubes'

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Lee R. Copp
2006-10-30 21:53:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric "Shubes"
Post by Rangi Biddle
the administration CGI scripts (if you intend to run the CGI scripts). This
was wholly an apache suexec issue more than a DSpam one.
Hey Lee, what do you know about this problem? (Please see Rangi's earlier
post) Did you come across this problem? Solution?
I ignored the admin cgi scripts since I only used IMAP folders for
training...much easier than another website to click around for my users.
--
Lee R. Copp
Project Engineer (EE/ME)
http://www.michsci.com/

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Rangi Biddle
2006-10-31 05:28:42 UTC
Permalink
Hey Lee,

With your setup, does it allow pop3 clients to download less spam? Just
wondering as this would be an easier approach considering you could filter
mail marked as spam into a mail folder and train Dspam that way.

If so care to share?



-----Original Message-----
From: Lee R. Copp [mailto:***@MichiganScientific.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 31 October 2006 10:53 a.m.
To: qmailtoaster-***@qmailtoaster.com
Subject: Re: [qmailtoaster] Dspam on the toaster
Post by Eric "Shubes"
Post by Rangi Biddle
the administration CGI scripts (if you intend to run the CGI scripts).
This
Post by Eric "Shubes"
Post by Rangi Biddle
was wholly an apache suexec issue more than a DSpam one.
Hey Lee, what do you know about this problem? (Please see Rangi's earlier
post) Did you come across this problem? Solution?
I ignored the admin cgi scripts since I only used IMAP folders for
training...much easier than another website to click around for my users.
--
Lee R. Copp
Project Engineer (EE/ME)
http://www.michsci.com/

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Lee R. Copp
2006-10-31 15:53:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rangi Biddle
With your setup, does it allow pop3 clients to download less spam? Just
wondering as this would be an easier approach considering you could filter
mail marked as spam into a mail folder and train Dspam that way.
POP3 would work fine except for the training portion of dspam. Even
though my setup uses IMAP people can still download the contents of
their inbox which would be clean. Training could be done by forwarding
ham and spam to email aliases which would be pretty basic using
.qmail-alias files.
--
Lee R. Copp
Project Engineer (EE/ME)
http://www.michsci.com/

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Eric "Shubes"
2006-10-31 16:01:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee R. Copp
Post by Rangi Biddle
With your setup, does it allow pop3 clients to download less spam? Just
wondering as this would be an easier approach considering you could filter
mail marked as spam into a mail folder and train Dspam that way.
POP3 would work fine except for the training portion of dspam. Even
though my setup uses IMAP people can still download the contents of
their inbox which would be clean. Training could be done by forwarding
ham and spam to email aliases which would be pretty basic using
.qmail-alias files.
Would forwarding distort the message since it would appear to be coming from
the recipient (forwarder) instead of the original sender? How would dspam
handle this?
--
-Eric 'shubes'

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Jake Vickers
2006-10-31 16:12:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric "Shubes"
Post by Lee R. Copp
Post by Rangi Biddle
With your setup, does it allow pop3 clients to download less spam? Just
wondering as this would be an easier approach considering you could filter
mail marked as spam into a mail folder and train Dspam that way.
POP3 would work fine except for the training portion of dspam. Even
though my setup uses IMAP people can still download the contents of
their inbox which would be clean. Training could be done by forwarding
ham and spam to email aliases which would be pretty basic using
.qmail-alias files.
Would forwarding distort the message since it would appear to be coming from
the recipient (forwarder) instead of the original sender? How would dspam
handle this?
I imagine it would. To train spamassassin this way, you need to "bounce"
or redirect the message to a spam account for it to learn from.
Sorry, I just jumped in the middle of this. Here is some more info:

Many thanks to all the contributors, listed in parentheses.

AOL's integrated email client

Redirecting mail is not available. /(Dave Goldsmith)/

Eudora

Select the message, go to the "Message" menu, choose redirect, fill in
the address, and choose send. /(Brian Corcoran and Erik Wheeler)/

Evolution

Select the message. In the "Actions" menu, choose the "Forward" submenu
(not "Forward message", the "Forward" submenu). Pick "Redirect", fill in
the "To" field, and press "Send". /(Johannes Ullrich)/

OS/X Mail.app

With the email message open or selected, go to Mail's 'Message' menu and
select 'Bounce to sender' or 'Redirect'. If you use this frequently, go
to the "View" menu, choose "Customize toolbar", and add a button for
"Redirect". /(Marion Bates)/

Microsoft Outlook 97

Double-click on the message so it opens in a new window. Click on
Tools->Resend This Message. A warning will appear about you not being
the original sender of the message. Click Yes. A message window appears.
Update the To: field and click on 'Send'. /(Dave Goldsmith)/

Microsoft Outlook 2000

Double-click on the message so it opens in a new window. Click on
Actions->Resend This Message. A warning will appear about you not being
the original sender of the message. Click Yes. A message window appears.
Update the To: field and click on 'Send'. /(Dave Goldsmith)/

Microsoft Outlook Express

It does not appear to have a redirect option. /(Dave Goldsmith and Alex
Bates)/

Netscape Communicator 4.x and 7.x

They don't appear to have a redirect option.

Pine

For a single message, highlight the message and press "b" to bounce it.
Enter the target address and press enter.

For multiple messages, select all the messages you'd like to bounce with
either ":" to select them one at a time, or ";" to select multiple
messages by message number, subject, body text, etc. Once selected,
press "a", then "b" to Apply the Bounce command to all of them. Enter
the target email address. Once done, press ";", then "a" to Unselect All
selected messages.

More info can be found at:
http://www.itc.virginia.edu/desktop/email/pine/bounce.html
Eric "Shubes"
2006-10-31 16:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jake Vickers
Post by Eric "Shubes"
Post by Lee R. Copp
Post by Rangi Biddle
With your setup, does it allow pop3 clients to download less spam? Just
wondering as this would be an easier approach considering you could filter
mail marked as spam into a mail folder and train Dspam that way.
POP3 would work fine except for the training portion of dspam. Even
though my setup uses IMAP people can still download the contents of
their inbox which would be clean. Training could be done by forwarding
ham and spam to email aliases which would be pretty basic using
.qmail-alias files.
Would forwarding distort the message since it would appear to be coming from
the recipient (forwarder) instead of the original sender? How would dspam
handle this?
I imagine it would. To train spamassassin this way, you need to "bounce"
or redirect the message to a spam account for it to learn from.
Many thanks to all the contributors, listed in parentheses.
AOL's integrated email client
Redirecting mail is not available. /(Dave Goldsmith)/
Eudora
Select the message, go to the "Message" menu, choose redirect, fill in
the address, and choose send. /(Brian Corcoran and Erik Wheeler)/
Evolution
Select the message. In the "Actions" menu, choose the "Forward" submenu
(not "Forward message", the "Forward" submenu). Pick "Redirect", fill in
the "To" field, and press "Send". /(Johannes Ullrich)/
OS/X Mail.app
With the email message open or selected, go to Mail's 'Message' menu and
select 'Bounce to sender' or 'Redirect'. If you use this frequently, go
to the "View" menu, choose "Customize toolbar", and add a button for
"Redirect". /(Marion Bates)/
Microsoft Outlook 97
Double-click on the message so it opens in a new window. Click on
Tools->Resend This Message. A warning will appear about you not being
the original sender of the message. Click Yes. A message window appears.
Update the To: field and click on 'Send'. /(Dave Goldsmith)/
Microsoft Outlook 2000
Double-click on the message so it opens in a new window. Click on
Actions->Resend This Message. A warning will appear about you not being
the original sender of the message. Click Yes. A message window appears.
Update the To: field and click on 'Send'. /(Dave Goldsmith)/
Microsoft Outlook Express
It does not appear to have a redirect option. /(Dave Goldsmith and Alex
Bates)/
Netscape Communicator 4.x and 7.x
They don't appear to have a redirect option.
Pine
For a single message, highlight the message and press "b" to bounce it.
Enter the target address and press enter.
For multiple messages, select all the messages you'd like to bounce with
either ":" to select them one at a time, or ";" to select multiple
messages by message number, subject, body text, etc. Once selected,
press "a", then "b" to Apply the Bounce command to all of them. Enter
the target email address. Once done, press ";", then "a" to Unselect All
selected messages.
http://www.itc.virginia.edu/desktop/email/pine/bounce.html
I was wondering about dspam w/ pop3. This answers a lot of questions.

I'm disappointed to see that Netscape doesn't have a redirect option.
However, there *is* a mailredirect extension for Mozilla Thunderbird (0.7
and above) and Mozilla Mail. I don't know if this would work with Netscape
or not.

In addition, I see on the dspam list that some people have used both
spamassassin *and* dspam. That being the case, I think we should be looking
to provide dspam in addition to SA on the toaster. It'd be sweet if people
could choose either/and with a simple configuration. Keyword: simple.
Neither one is looking very simple to me at this point. :( Doesn't mean it
can't be done though.
--
-Eric 'shubes'

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Jake Vickers
2006-10-31 16:44:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric "Shubes"
I was wondering about dspam w/ pop3. This answers a lot of questions.
I'm disappointed to see that Netscape doesn't have a redirect option.
However, there *is* a mailredirect extension for Mozilla Thunderbird (0.7
and above) and Mozilla Mail. I don't know if this would work with Netscape
or not.
In addition, I see on the dspam list that some people have used both
spamassassin *and* dspam. That being the case, I think we should be looking
to provide dspam in addition to SA on the toaster. It'd be sweet if people
could choose either/and with a simple configuration. Keyword: simple.
Neither one is looking very simple to me at this point. :( Doesn't mean it
can't be done though.
That was from a while ago; they may have a fix for Netscape now. Figured
that would help a little.

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Justice London
2006-10-31 16:45:08 UTC
Permalink
Well, apparently I lied. I'm not going to have time this week to work on the
dspam stuff.

Justice London

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric "Shubes" [mailto:***@shubes.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 8:38 AM
To: qmailtoaster-***@qmailtoaster.com
Subject: Re: [qmailtoaster] Dspam on the toaster
Post by Jake Vickers
Post by Eric "Shubes"
Post by Lee R. Copp
Post by Rangi Biddle
With your setup, does it allow pop3 clients to download less spam? Just
wondering as this would be an easier approach considering you could filter
mail marked as spam into a mail folder and train Dspam that way.
POP3 would work fine except for the training portion of dspam. Even
though my setup uses IMAP people can still download the contents of
their inbox which would be clean. Training could be done by forwarding
ham and spam to email aliases which would be pretty basic using
.qmail-alias files.
Would forwarding distort the message since it would appear to be coming from
the recipient (forwarder) instead of the original sender? How would dspam
handle this?
I imagine it would. To train spamassassin this way, you need to "bounce"
or redirect the message to a spam account for it to learn from.
Many thanks to all the contributors, listed in parentheses.
AOL's integrated email client
Redirecting mail is not available. /(Dave Goldsmith)/
Eudora
Select the message, go to the "Message" menu, choose redirect, fill in
the address, and choose send. /(Brian Corcoran and Erik Wheeler)/
Evolution
Select the message. In the "Actions" menu, choose the "Forward" submenu
(not "Forward message", the "Forward" submenu). Pick "Redirect", fill in
the "To" field, and press "Send". /(Johannes Ullrich)/
OS/X Mail.app
With the email message open or selected, go to Mail's 'Message' menu and
select 'Bounce to sender' or 'Redirect'. If you use this frequently, go
to the "View" menu, choose "Customize toolbar", and add a button for
"Redirect". /(Marion Bates)/
Microsoft Outlook 97
Double-click on the message so it opens in a new window. Click on
Tools->Resend This Message. A warning will appear about you not being
the original sender of the message. Click Yes. A message window appears.
Update the To: field and click on 'Send'. /(Dave Goldsmith)/
Microsoft Outlook 2000
Double-click on the message so it opens in a new window. Click on
Actions->Resend This Message. A warning will appear about you not being
the original sender of the message. Click Yes. A message window appears.
Update the To: field and click on 'Send'. /(Dave Goldsmith)/
Microsoft Outlook Express
It does not appear to have a redirect option. /(Dave Goldsmith and Alex
Bates)/
Netscape Communicator 4.x and 7.x
They don't appear to have a redirect option.
Pine
For a single message, highlight the message and press "b" to bounce it.
Enter the target address and press enter.
For multiple messages, select all the messages you'd like to bounce with
either ":" to select them one at a time, or ";" to select multiple
messages by message number, subject, body text, etc. Once selected,
press "a", then "b" to Apply the Bounce command to all of them. Enter
the target email address. Once done, press ";", then "a" to Unselect All
selected messages.
http://www.itc.virginia.edu/desktop/email/pine/bounce.html
I was wondering about dspam w/ pop3. This answers a lot of questions.

I'm disappointed to see that Netscape doesn't have a redirect option.
However, there *is* a mailredirect extension for Mozilla Thunderbird (0.7
and above) and Mozilla Mail. I don't know if this would work with Netscape
or not.

In addition, I see on the dspam list that some people have used both
spamassassin *and* dspam. That being the case, I think we should be looking
to provide dspam in addition to SA on the toaster. It'd be sweet if people
could choose either/and with a simple configuration. Keyword: simple.
Neither one is looking very simple to me at this point. :( Doesn't mean it
can't be done though.
--
-Eric 'shubes'

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Eric "Shubes"
2006-10-31 16:48:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justice London
Well, apparently I lied. I'm not going to have time this week to work on the
dspam stuff.
Justice London
That's ok, Justice. There's no hurry. Slow and steady wins the race! If we
get anything going at all on this by the end of the year, I'll be happy. ;)
--
-Eric 'shubes'

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Shelly
2006-11-01 01:38:41 UTC
Permalink
When testing is required, it might pay to put a call out to users in the list - I know I would definitely respond. Im very interested in dspam, through my own failed test installs.
Post by Justice London
Well, apparently I lied. I'm not going to have time this week to work on the
dspam stuff.
Justice London
That's ok, Justice. There's no hurry. Slow and steady wins the race! If we
get anything going at all on this by the end of the year, I'll be happy. ;)
--
-Eric 'shubes'

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Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Lee R. Copp
2006-10-31 22:19:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric "Shubes"
Would forwarding distort the message since it would appear to be coming from
the recipient (forwarder) instead of the original sender? How would dspam
handle this?
Forwarding the message to a spam/ham training address will distort the
message but dspam won't care. When dspam is first run the message is
scanned to create tags that all belong to a unique id. The tags
determine spam or ham and dspam marks it as such along with embedding
the id in the header or body. To train on a false-pos or false-neg
dspam only really needs the id and the right command line switch. So,
it doesn't matter if you forward it as long as that id is in there.
Each qmail-alias is set to run dspam with the 'oops, spam' or 'oops,
ham' switch and dspam learns from its mistake.

To make things really slick only 1 qmail-alias is needed. Simply scan
the header for the prior dspam classification and pipe it back to dspam
with the correct switch...;)
--
Lee R. Copp
Project Engineer (EE/ME)
http://www.michsci.com/

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Eric "Shubes"
2006-11-01 16:50:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lee R. Copp
Post by Eric "Shubes"
Would forwarding distort the message since it would appear to be coming from
the recipient (forwarder) instead of the original sender? How would dspam
handle this?
Forwarding the message to a spam/ham training address will distort the
message but dspam won't care. When dspam is first run the message is
scanned to create tags that all belong to a unique id. The tags
determine spam or ham and dspam marks it as such along with embedding
the id in the header or body. To train on a false-pos or false-neg
dspam only really needs the id and the right command line switch. So,
it doesn't matter if you forward it as long as that id is in there.
Each qmail-alias is set to run dspam with the 'oops, spam' or 'oops,
ham' switch and dspam learns from its mistake.
To make things really slick only 1 qmail-alias is needed. Simply scan
the header for the prior dspam classification and pipe it back to dspam
with the correct switch...;)
Sounds slick.

Is that one qmail-alias per server, domain, or user? (I'm not real clear on
the process yet)

Do I understand correctly that dspam also keeps track of ham/spam on a
per-user basis? In this manner, a piece of mail might be spam to one user
and ham to another (in the same domain)?
--
-Eric 'shubes'

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Lee R. Copp
2006-11-01 19:24:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric "Shubes"
Is that one qmail-alias per server, domain, or user? (I'm not real clear on
the process yet)
Its per user but it might be possible to have a global address if dspam
was tweaked. It might support it now but I'm not sure...my dspam
version is over a year old.
Post by Eric "Shubes"
Do I understand correctly that dspam also keeps track of ham/spam on a
per-user basis? In this manner, a piece of mail might be spam to one user
and ham to another (in the same domain)?
Yes. Yes.
--
Lee R. Copp
Project Engineer (EE/ME)
http://www.michsci.com/

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